Tom Payne Is a Sociopath / Psychopath (Now that's some true words).
January 30, 2019
Dear Pastor Payne,
This letter is per your request, to put into writing the things I have shared with you since December of 2018.
Beginning around Dec 2017, I had several conversations with Neil McCann expressing ‘concerns’ he had with the Beechboro church and yourself. Most of these were on the phone, and one in person while he was in Perth. Here are some of the statements made by Neil that I remember:
* More seasoned pastors are being overlooked in favor of younger pastors
* Some older pastors won’t speak up against Pr Payne as they have nothing to fall back on if removed.
* P Payne does not care about the Perth church, it’s just a stepping stone to the next church in the USA
* Things will not last another 5 yrs / It’s all Greg Mitchell now / Pr Mitchell is hands off...
* Pr Payne is a Sociopath / Psychopath
* A lot of good people have left the Beechboro church (Pr Payne’s doing)
* Why is Beechboro & Australia Fellowship not prospering like Tucson with it’s many churches?
* Pr Payne was sent on a mission to confront H Warner.
* I’m still having arrows thrown at me (Understanding this referred to Pr Payne)
While I feel that Neil was often ‘Fishing’ for me to contribute, I admit that I did participate and became caught up in Neil’s perspective. Early on Neil apologized if he ‘over spoke’ but would continue in subsequent conversations. At one point I said I didn’t like the way this is going, and that I have a responsibility to support my Pastor, but in reality I should not have participated or allowed this to continue as long as I did.
Any time I mentioned Neil going to you or Pr G or W Mitchell to work it out, he stated that he wouldn’t, because he has already tried. It seems that Neil was amassing ammunition to use against you rather than seeking any resolution.
After I asked for, and read a copy of Carlo’s letter to you, I spoke to Neil and I remember him saying:
* There are other good churches that people have gone to, maybe Carlo and Courtney will go to one.
On Sunday Dec 16, 2018 I spoke to Neil on the phone, and told him that I believe what he is doing is wrong, and I do not agree. I insisted that Matthew 18 requires that he go to you or Pr’s Mitchell, rather than speak to others, but again he resisted that. I also mentioned Proverbs 6: 19 and that he is ‘Sowing discord’ by speaking to me and affecting my confidence in my pastor and the Fellowship. He did not respond well to this. I asked Neil if he had spoken to anyone else about these things... Neil did not answer. He also said:
* Australia needs to be run by an Aussie. I have attached the 4 text messages we exchanged after this conversation.
I have no ill will towards Neil McCann, and have communicated that I love him as a brother. I apologize and repent for any and all participation in Neil McCann’s or Carlo Rokobuta’s position concerning this. I support your leadership, and view the Beechboro Church as having a healthy and fruitful culture and atmosphere.
Regards, Jamie Harries
---------------------
Texts Between Jamie and Neil
Neil to Jamie: Sun Jan 13, 2019
Jamie I have been thinking about our conversations and again want to apologize if you feel I over spoke. We have been friends for 30 plus years and the last thing I want to do is damage this. This being said does not mean that my opinion has changed concerning what we spoke about and I believe wholeheartedly that my perspective is correct. I do not blame you for your reaction and can see where you are coming from. But... if after 30 plus years we cannot talk about things that concern us and are important to us then what kind of friendship do we have?! When you called me and told me you read Carlos letter you told me that you felt it was an accurate well written weighty letter. You also expressed your own concerns. Jamie there is nothing wrong or rebellious about sharing concerns with mature trusted friends who's opinions you value. You are not a new convert and I truly value your opinion... that's why I opened the discussion... I genuinely wanted to know... as a close observer where you were at and whether you could see some of the same things that deeply concern me. If we cannot talk and be open about things.. or question anything then we have unfortunately given the devil a great advantage. You asked me if I had talked to Tom Payne about some of my issues and the answer is yes... have I told him that I think he is a sociopath... no. That I have only shared that with a few very close trusted friends. You have told me you value the opinion of a few men and included Paul Graham and Greg Farrell in that trusted circle. If those relationships are what you say they are then why don't you ask them what they honestly think of Tom Payne and his Leadership and where the fellowship is at right now? I do not speak on their behalf... but... if you think I am unbalanced and completely off the mark concerning my perspective and you trust their opinion then ask them what they think. You may be surprised. Love you too bro... Neil...
Jamie to Neil Sun Jan 13, 2019
Neil,
I have considered.
* You have more than over spoken: right back to your initial call(s) you have fished for fault finding with Pastor Payne from me (& possibly others) & I now repent of any communicated fault finding in Pastor Payne & acknowledge I was wrong to find fault & come on side with your complaint & should have rebuked you & redirected you to Pastors Payne, W & G Mitchell. (Matt 18)
*You openly (to me) called Pastor Payne a psychopath or sociopath & predicted the demise of the fellowship. This is sinful because it is corrupt communication which works against edification & caused incredible inner turmoil for me & you have stated you still hold this position. * I no longer agree with any part of Carlo's email & repent of any communication that indicates any such agreement.
* I now view the whole incident & the way you are going about it as sin & you are sowing division, defaming headship & this has its origin in active rebellion on your part against Pastor Payne.
* It is also rebellious for you to seek reinforcement of your position by suggesting I call Prs Farrell & Graham to get ammunition that bolsters your position: again if you ALL have issues you ALL should go to Prs Payne, Mitchell & Mitchell.
*Furthermore it is my position that anyone right with headship is open & honest with headship (including myself) & yet you sought to (& did) divide me from my Pastor.
* 30 yrs of friendship is not justification for rebellion
* If you seek changes because you disagree with Pastor Payne any other method outside of scripture is sinful. Matt 18
JH
Neil to Jamie Sun Jan 13, 2019:
Wow... I am saddened at your estimation of me. As for Greg and Paul I can honestly say I have not spoken to them about my concerns. As I said... they are close friends of yours, not mine, and if I am wrong then it would be good to get another perspective. Jamie It is not rebellion to talk. How can you gather two or three witnesses against an elder (biblical) if you don't talk?... and how do you go to someone you believe is a sociopath and say I think you’re a sociopath? Again I am sorry for any harm I may have caused you. If I am wrong then God will bring it to light. I did not prophecy the demise of the fellowship... they are your words not mine. Jamie I did not fish for anything. We had a conversation as friends and spoke of things that concern us. I did write a letter to both Tom Payne and Greg Mitchell addressing some issues and they never even bothered to respond. Why? Because they have no comeback! You rang me and told me you had read Carlos letter. You told me you were in agreement. You told me you had your concerns and that the letter was brilliant and weighty! So do you blame me for that? It was a two way conversation. I think you need to do some deep soul searching Jamie and be real with yourself. If you have changed your position then that's your prerogative. But that does not mean that I now must change mine. If I am proven wrong over time I will be the first to admit. If you have gone to Tom Payne at least have the decency to let me know. Neil
Jamie to Neil Sun Jan 13, 2019:
I said I have told you
JH
Dear Pastor Payne,
This letter is per your request, to put into writing the things I have shared with you since December of 2018.
Beginning around Dec 2017, I had several conversations with Neil McCann expressing ‘concerns’ he had with the Beechboro church and yourself. Most of these were on the phone, and one in person while he was in Perth. Here are some of the statements made by Neil that I remember:
* More seasoned pastors are being overlooked in favor of younger pastors
* Some older pastors won’t speak up against Pr Payne as they have nothing to fall back on if removed.
* P Payne does not care about the Perth church, it’s just a stepping stone to the next church in the USA
* Things will not last another 5 yrs / It’s all Greg Mitchell now / Pr Mitchell is hands off...
* Pr Payne is a Sociopath / Psychopath
* A lot of good people have left the Beechboro church (Pr Payne’s doing)
* Why is Beechboro & Australia Fellowship not prospering like Tucson with it’s many churches?
* Pr Payne was sent on a mission to confront H Warner.
* I’m still having arrows thrown at me (Understanding this referred to Pr Payne)
While I feel that Neil was often ‘Fishing’ for me to contribute, I admit that I did participate and became caught up in Neil’s perspective. Early on Neil apologized if he ‘over spoke’ but would continue in subsequent conversations. At one point I said I didn’t like the way this is going, and that I have a responsibility to support my Pastor, but in reality I should not have participated or allowed this to continue as long as I did.
Any time I mentioned Neil going to you or Pr G or W Mitchell to work it out, he stated that he wouldn’t, because he has already tried. It seems that Neil was amassing ammunition to use against you rather than seeking any resolution.
After I asked for, and read a copy of Carlo’s letter to you, I spoke to Neil and I remember him saying:
* There are other good churches that people have gone to, maybe Carlo and Courtney will go to one.
On Sunday Dec 16, 2018 I spoke to Neil on the phone, and told him that I believe what he is doing is wrong, and I do not agree. I insisted that Matthew 18 requires that he go to you or Pr’s Mitchell, rather than speak to others, but again he resisted that. I also mentioned Proverbs 6: 19 and that he is ‘Sowing discord’ by speaking to me and affecting my confidence in my pastor and the Fellowship. He did not respond well to this. I asked Neil if he had spoken to anyone else about these things... Neil did not answer. He also said:
* Australia needs to be run by an Aussie. I have attached the 4 text messages we exchanged after this conversation.
I have no ill will towards Neil McCann, and have communicated that I love him as a brother. I apologize and repent for any and all participation in Neil McCann’s or Carlo Rokobuta’s position concerning this. I support your leadership, and view the Beechboro Church as having a healthy and fruitful culture and atmosphere.
Regards, Jamie Harries
---------------------
Texts Between Jamie and Neil
Neil to Jamie: Sun Jan 13, 2019
Jamie I have been thinking about our conversations and again want to apologize if you feel I over spoke. We have been friends for 30 plus years and the last thing I want to do is damage this. This being said does not mean that my opinion has changed concerning what we spoke about and I believe wholeheartedly that my perspective is correct. I do not blame you for your reaction and can see where you are coming from. But... if after 30 plus years we cannot talk about things that concern us and are important to us then what kind of friendship do we have?! When you called me and told me you read Carlos letter you told me that you felt it was an accurate well written weighty letter. You also expressed your own concerns. Jamie there is nothing wrong or rebellious about sharing concerns with mature trusted friends who's opinions you value. You are not a new convert and I truly value your opinion... that's why I opened the discussion... I genuinely wanted to know... as a close observer where you were at and whether you could see some of the same things that deeply concern me. If we cannot talk and be open about things.. or question anything then we have unfortunately given the devil a great advantage. You asked me if I had talked to Tom Payne about some of my issues and the answer is yes... have I told him that I think he is a sociopath... no. That I have only shared that with a few very close trusted friends. You have told me you value the opinion of a few men and included Paul Graham and Greg Farrell in that trusted circle. If those relationships are what you say they are then why don't you ask them what they honestly think of Tom Payne and his Leadership and where the fellowship is at right now? I do not speak on their behalf... but... if you think I am unbalanced and completely off the mark concerning my perspective and you trust their opinion then ask them what they think. You may be surprised. Love you too bro... Neil...
Jamie to Neil Sun Jan 13, 2019
Neil,
I have considered.
* You have more than over spoken: right back to your initial call(s) you have fished for fault finding with Pastor Payne from me (& possibly others) & I now repent of any communicated fault finding in Pastor Payne & acknowledge I was wrong to find fault & come on side with your complaint & should have rebuked you & redirected you to Pastors Payne, W & G Mitchell. (Matt 18)
*You openly (to me) called Pastor Payne a psychopath or sociopath & predicted the demise of the fellowship. This is sinful because it is corrupt communication which works against edification & caused incredible inner turmoil for me & you have stated you still hold this position. * I no longer agree with any part of Carlo's email & repent of any communication that indicates any such agreement.
* I now view the whole incident & the way you are going about it as sin & you are sowing division, defaming headship & this has its origin in active rebellion on your part against Pastor Payne.
* It is also rebellious for you to seek reinforcement of your position by suggesting I call Prs Farrell & Graham to get ammunition that bolsters your position: again if you ALL have issues you ALL should go to Prs Payne, Mitchell & Mitchell.
*Furthermore it is my position that anyone right with headship is open & honest with headship (including myself) & yet you sought to (& did) divide me from my Pastor.
* 30 yrs of friendship is not justification for rebellion
* If you seek changes because you disagree with Pastor Payne any other method outside of scripture is sinful. Matt 18
JH
Neil to Jamie Sun Jan 13, 2019:
Wow... I am saddened at your estimation of me. As for Greg and Paul I can honestly say I have not spoken to them about my concerns. As I said... they are close friends of yours, not mine, and if I am wrong then it would be good to get another perspective. Jamie It is not rebellion to talk. How can you gather two or three witnesses against an elder (biblical) if you don't talk?... and how do you go to someone you believe is a sociopath and say I think you’re a sociopath? Again I am sorry for any harm I may have caused you. If I am wrong then God will bring it to light. I did not prophecy the demise of the fellowship... they are your words not mine. Jamie I did not fish for anything. We had a conversation as friends and spoke of things that concern us. I did write a letter to both Tom Payne and Greg Mitchell addressing some issues and they never even bothered to respond. Why? Because they have no comeback! You rang me and told me you had read Carlos letter. You told me you were in agreement. You told me you had your concerns and that the letter was brilliant and weighty! So do you blame me for that? It was a two way conversation. I think you need to do some deep soul searching Jamie and be real with yourself. If you have changed your position then that's your prerogative. But that does not mean that I now must change mine. If I am proven wrong over time I will be the first to admit. If you have gone to Tom Payne at least have the decency to let me know. Neil
Jamie to Neil Sun Jan 13, 2019:
I said I have told you
JH
Comments
Post a Comment